"a very one-sided attempt at a contract"
April 30, 2023 8:21 AM Subscribe
"The older kids have been playing with the concept of contracts, which has often involved attempts to trick the other into signing something." Jeff Kaufman shares the "various forms of contract fraud" recently explored by his children and his attempts at explaining that forging your sister's signature on a handwritten note stating "I _Lily_ Wise will let Anna hav wutevr she wonts from me" does not constitute a valid contract with her.
Just add a clause that you can change the terms at any time either without notification or with so much notification that no one will ever read it... That's how Terms of Service work, right?
posted by kaibutsu at 9:38 AM on April 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 9:38 AM on April 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
Literally I had a jury duty case like this, with full grown ass adults over 30 and the world's sketchiest handwritten "proof of sale" in which the "seller's" name was spelled wrong.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:07 AM on April 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:07 AM on April 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh boy... these contracts won't work now, but wait 'til these children learn about arbitration.
posted by mikeand1 at 11:14 AM on April 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by mikeand1 at 11:14 AM on April 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
She needs to learn to set them in justified all-caps 6 point type, put them in an envelope that says (in the same type) that opening the envelope constitutes acceptance of said contract.
posted by cccorlew at 12:41 PM on April 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by cccorlew at 12:41 PM on April 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Those are at least as valid and enforceable as many of the contracts that underpin many romance novels.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:51 PM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 4:51 PM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’m pretty sure I had an employer who was playing an advanced version of this game.
I once trained a lot of people on a blue-collar job and my employer was pulling some Shady Employer Tricks, so I began a one-man work to rule campaign, doing precisely what my job required and no more.
This made the employer less than happy, so the retaliation was tracing every accident back to me somehow. I train someone in April; in December after months of flawless work, the guy messes up and scratches something: it is my fault for training him poorly.
I got written up for every accident that any tortured insane troll logic could connect to me. Early on, when I still cared, I pointed out that the accident report I had been made to sign omitted several relevant details. I was told not to worry — the reason for some blank space between the end of the report and my signature was so that they could add more to the report after it was signed.
Ah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:51 PM on April 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
I once trained a lot of people on a blue-collar job and my employer was pulling some Shady Employer Tricks, so I began a one-man work to rule campaign, doing precisely what my job required and no more.
This made the employer less than happy, so the retaliation was tracing every accident back to me somehow. I train someone in April; in December after months of flawless work, the guy messes up and scratches something: it is my fault for training him poorly.
I got written up for every accident that any tortured insane troll logic could connect to me. Early on, when I still cared, I pointed out that the accident report I had been made to sign omitted several relevant details. I was told not to worry — the reason for some blank space between the end of the report and my signature was so that they could add more to the report after it was signed.
Ah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:51 PM on April 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
Those are at least as valid and enforceable as many of the contracts that underpin many romance novels.
Look I know I'm out of the loop and all but is there now a romance subgenre that hinges on contract law?
posted by phooky at 5:31 AM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Look I know I'm out of the loop and all but is there now a romance subgenre that hinges on contract law?
posted by phooky at 5:31 AM on May 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Look I know I'm out of the loop and all but is there now a romance subgenre that hinges on contract law?
Possibly written by Chuck Tingle?
posted by JohnFromGR at 5:57 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Possibly written by Chuck Tingle?
posted by JohnFromGR at 5:57 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
the reason for some blank space between the end of the report and my signature was so that they could add more to the report after it was signed.
I just hired a contractor to do some home renovations and their contract included the disclaimer "Do not sign if there are any blank spaces on any of the previous pages" right above the signature space. I know it's probably standard legal boilerplate these days, but I still appreciated seeing it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:17 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just hired a contractor to do some home renovations and their contract included the disclaimer "Do not sign if there are any blank spaces on any of the previous pages" right above the signature space. I know it's probably standard legal boilerplate these days, but I still appreciated seeing it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:17 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I got written up for every accident that any tortured insane troll logic could connect to me.
This reminds me of the one employee evaluation that I got at a job that I was at for four years. After I'd been there about a year, I requested one, because I thought that I'd been doing a good job and wanted the evaluation on my record in case there was an opportunity for promotion. My supervisor seemed oddly reluctant to do it, though, and put it off a few times; when I finally got it, I was shocked, because it barely acknowledged anything that I'd done above and beyond my listed job description (including creating a couple of computer classes for the public--this was the mid-90s, when we were just getting internet-connected public access computers in the library, and quite a few members of the public had had absolutely zero experience using one), but instead dwelled on some absolutely picayune details of my time in the department; some of these things I could tell had come directly from the department's gossip/complainer, probably the least qualified member of our team. I was informed that I could file a rebuttal, which I did, and in which I thought that I was remarkably restrained and factual. I think that you can guess what happened next: I was put on disciplinary probation less than a week later, ostensibly because of an incident in which I'd actually been following department policy but the library patron complained because of entitlement. I supposed that I could have filed a rebuttal to that, but I kind of knew the deal by then, and kept my head down and started looking for another job. (I later found out some details about my supervisor's past work history, as well as the exceedingly toxic reality of the library system's management, that made it clear why my supervisor was so reluctant to do an evaluation--basically, CYA, though the heavens fall--but, you know, she could have told me that off the record.)
In terms of actual contracts, the one that sticks out to me is when I moved to a college town and sublet a room in an apartment whose manager was, um, pretty casual about the formal details of a lease. I started looking for another place almost immediately, and when he finally came around with a sublet lease, I informed him that I was going to be living elsewhere soon, and he was not mollified when I pointed out to him that I wouldn't sign that lease anyway since he had copied a legal-sized document onto letter-sized paper and therefore the bottom three inches of this document were completely missing.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:43 AM on May 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
This reminds me of the one employee evaluation that I got at a job that I was at for four years. After I'd been there about a year, I requested one, because I thought that I'd been doing a good job and wanted the evaluation on my record in case there was an opportunity for promotion. My supervisor seemed oddly reluctant to do it, though, and put it off a few times; when I finally got it, I was shocked, because it barely acknowledged anything that I'd done above and beyond my listed job description (including creating a couple of computer classes for the public--this was the mid-90s, when we were just getting internet-connected public access computers in the library, and quite a few members of the public had had absolutely zero experience using one), but instead dwelled on some absolutely picayune details of my time in the department; some of these things I could tell had come directly from the department's gossip/complainer, probably the least qualified member of our team. I was informed that I could file a rebuttal, which I did, and in which I thought that I was remarkably restrained and factual. I think that you can guess what happened next: I was put on disciplinary probation less than a week later, ostensibly because of an incident in which I'd actually been following department policy but the library patron complained because of entitlement. I supposed that I could have filed a rebuttal to that, but I kind of knew the deal by then, and kept my head down and started looking for another job. (I later found out some details about my supervisor's past work history, as well as the exceedingly toxic reality of the library system's management, that made it clear why my supervisor was so reluctant to do an evaluation--basically, CYA, though the heavens fall--but, you know, she could have told me that off the record.)
In terms of actual contracts, the one that sticks out to me is when I moved to a college town and sublet a room in an apartment whose manager was, um, pretty casual about the formal details of a lease. I started looking for another place almost immediately, and when he finally came around with a sublet lease, I informed him that I was going to be living elsewhere soon, and he was not mollified when I pointed out to him that I wouldn't sign that lease anyway since he had copied a legal-sized document onto letter-sized paper and therefore the bottom three inches of this document were completely missing.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:43 AM on May 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am having a hard time specifically dredging up titles but I think at least 2-3 of Courtney Milan's romance novels turn on specific points of contract law! Possibly Mrs. Martin's Incomparable Adventure in particular.
posted by brainwane at 8:57 AM on May 1, 2023
posted by brainwane at 8:57 AM on May 1, 2023
is there now a romance subgenre that hinges on contract law?
Of the 50 Shades variety of 'romance,' or to set up some highly unlikely employment situation with a power imbalance, as a prelude to it.
See also this attempt to monetize the concept. [Mildly NSFW]
So far as kids and contracts are concerned, lets not forget this fundamental treatise on promissory estoppel and quasi-contract.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:58 AM on May 1, 2023
Of the 50 Shades variety of 'romance,' or to set up some highly unlikely employment situation with a power imbalance, as a prelude to it.
See also this attempt to monetize the concept. [Mildly NSFW]
So far as kids and contracts are concerned, lets not forget this fundamental treatise on promissory estoppel and quasi-contract.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:58 AM on May 1, 2023
One of my favorite legal contract terms is "anticipatory repudiation." There are few chances to mention it, but this may be one.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:28 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:28 AM on May 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Pounded In The Butt By My Handsome Agreement To Get Pounded In The Butt Where The Consideration I Was Offered Was To Get Pounded In The Butt And The Consideration I Offered Was For My Handsome Agreement To Pound Me In The Butt To Pound Me In The Butt
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:45 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:45 AM on May 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
GCU Sweet and Full of Grace, you have reminded me of a very tiny aspect of my ongoing romance with my spouse where, when we make a low-stakes bet (e.g., "I bet this character in this show apologizes before the end of the episode") we will often bet each other one kiss, i.e., the loser kisses the winner. Everyone wins!
posted by brainwane at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 11:24 AM on May 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
is there now a romance subgenre that hinges on contract law?
There are a surprising number of romance novels that involve weird contracts and/or will provisions requiring that one of the leads be married by a certain deadline. Or contracts requiring them to do illegal things that get them tangled up in a bind only the other lead can help them out of. I wouldn't call it a genre, more a couple of tropes.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:49 AM on May 2, 2023
There are a surprising number of romance novels that involve weird contracts and/or will provisions requiring that one of the leads be married by a certain deadline. Or contracts requiring them to do illegal things that get them tangled up in a bind only the other lead can help them out of. I wouldn't call it a genre, more a couple of tropes.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:49 AM on May 2, 2023
I decided to check the comprehensive romance novel review & listings site Smart Bitches, Trashy Books by searching for the word "contract" and found, e.g.,
"...On that fateful night, they are filmed canoodling (love that word!) and it goes viral. They have both been outed. Their respective managers cook up the best possible response to this: a fake relationship. There’s a contract and everything...."
"...She’s told she can’t leave; she signed the slave contract. Years later, beaten and starving, she hears an English Dom say the contract’s illegal. Unenforceable. And she runs...."
"...Until the day, he asks her for something she never expected. A new role with a personal contract — fiancée instead of PA...."
"...A marriage of convenience and three nights a month..... The offer she’s made is more than generous, and when the contract’s fulfilled, they’ll both walk away with everything they’ve ever wanted...."
"...Miss Diana Katherine Lambson’s only option is a marriage of convenience.... He will even provide Diana with a contract. But does she dare entrust her future to a scoundrel?..."
And maybe the most famous one: A Civil Contract by Georgette Heyer.
posted by brainwane at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
"...On that fateful night, they are filmed canoodling (love that word!) and it goes viral. They have both been outed. Their respective managers cook up the best possible response to this: a fake relationship. There’s a contract and everything...."
"...She’s told she can’t leave; she signed the slave contract. Years later, beaten and starving, she hears an English Dom say the contract’s illegal. Unenforceable. And she runs...."
"...Until the day, he asks her for something she never expected. A new role with a personal contract — fiancée instead of PA...."
"...A marriage of convenience and three nights a month..... The offer she’s made is more than generous, and when the contract’s fulfilled, they’ll both walk away with everything they’ve ever wanted...."
"...Miss Diana Katherine Lambson’s only option is a marriage of convenience.... He will even provide Diana with a contract. But does she dare entrust her future to a scoundrel?..."
And maybe the most famous one: A Civil Contract by Georgette Heyer.
posted by brainwane at 8:56 AM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Upon reading this post & thread, Mark Dominus was reminded of "the difficulty I had in explaining to my kids the complex transactions going on in A Bargain for Frances".
Later I thought of a better example, with no distracting goblins: suppose Katara asks for raspberries, and I know there are some in the refrigerator, but I tell her that we have none, because I want to eat them myself. I think this was just a little bit too complicated for Katara. It has four parts, and I try to keep explanations to three parts, which seems to be about the maximum that she can follow at once. (Two parts is even better.) I think Katara attached too much significance to the raspberries; for a while she seemed to think that lying had something to do with raspberries.posted by brainwane at 10:30 AM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I read the Mark Dominus blog post, then read a bit more of his blog, and found this post, about no-longer-so-little Katara learning cycle notation for permutations. A lot of character development between those two posts...
posted by kaibutsu at 5:05 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kaibutsu at 5:05 PM on May 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by metatuesday at 8:44 AM on April 30, 2023 [15 favorites]